Expert Training Sub-Committee
Minutes of the meeting held on 4th July 2005
Room W15, The Royal Courts of Justice
Present:
Lord Justice Thorpe
Stephen Cobb QC
Dr Mike Shaw
Dr Danya Glaser
Dr Rosalyn Proops
Jane Craig
Katherine Gieve
Michael Cotton (GMC) - standing in for Dr Joan Trowell
Apologies:
Apologies were recorded from Dr Pat Hamilton and Dr Joan Trowell
Minutes of the last meeting
Minutes of the last meeting of this committee on 24th May 2005 were approved.
Matters Arising
Para 4
Thorpe LJ asked if there had been any response to Item 4 of the minutes. Rosalyn Proops said that no specific discussion had been entered into with the RSM and Nuffield. The Chair said that this committee could be a broker and that the RSM were very willing to provide training for paediatrics in the same way they had done in psychiatry.
Action: Rosalyn Proops to put this item on the agendas of the various meetings she is attending and will report back on where things are at the next meeting.
Para 5
The Chair said that developments in the academic world needed to be built in to the mapping exercise. Rosalyn Proops gave an oral report from June Thoburn .
Action: Rosalyn Proops to speak or email Stephen Cobb QC to provide the information.
Katherine Gieve said that she had had discussions with contacts in the Law Society, Liz Goldthorpe and Resolution regarding training initiatives which solicitors were involved in. there were 2 aspects to this. The first was the administrative point. Katherine requested that a completed list of area FJCs and the contact persons be sent to Resolution's regional organisers. The second point raised was that Resolution was organising a seminar in October about the role of experts which Katherine Gieve was involved in and this was an opportunity to progress any blueprint proposals there would be at that stage.
Action: Katherine Gieve to liaise with Christina Blacklaws of the Law Society Family Committee with regard to progressing the above.
Jane Craig handed out a document 'Resolution - Summary of Interdisciplinary Training Initiatives in the Regions.' The Chair said that it would be useful for Stephen Cobb to work through the document.
The Chair also showed the committee copies of books he had received from the RSM and said that a FJC member should look at the titles' Law for Doctors' and 'Medicine for Lawyers'. Dr Danya Glaser said that there was a scoping group from the Royal Society of Psychiatrists looking at the issue of 'experts'. She would attend their meeting and inform them of the initiatives undertaken by this committee.
The Chair said that everyone wanted to know when the Chief Medical Officer's report would be published so that there would be an update on developments. However, the secretariat has chased the CMO's Office repeatedly for this and it was apparent that that this committee would not have advance sight of the report. The Chair said that he had had a conversation with Georgina Fletcher-Cooke who thought that the CMO had rejected her recommendations on the accreditation for experts. She thought that the CMO would be recommending a public consultation about his recommendations.
The Chair said that he had written to the President of the British Psychological Society to inquire if a representative would be available to join this committee. Slow progress was being made.
The Chair also informed the committee that both he and Mrs Justice Baron had met representatives to discuss procedural aspects and ways and means to limit investigation of complaints arising out of forensic work done by experts. If there were univestigated complaints of this nature, the GMC were concerned that they were vulnerable to being taken to the Administrative Court. Baron J would be meeting with the Head of the Administrative Court and all issues would then be discussed with the President. Discussion then followed on complaints procedures and what the right routes were.
The Chair then referred to the recent judgement by Ryder J. He said that in cases where there were heavy costs assessments, this should come out of the LSC's funding certificate and the LSC instead of appealing the judgement was changing the rules.
Stephen Cobb Q.C updated all on progress made to the mapping document. He said the he needed information urgently from Pat Hamilton and Rosalyn Proops in order to complete the global map. He also raised the fact that there were still a few judges who had not provided input. The Chair said that there was real danger of adverse reaction if these judges were pushed as some of them already had very heavy workloads. Stephen Cobb said that he was keen to draw a line in relation to collating the information; in due course he would append the 'map' to the document that would contain the medical information. The Chair also suggested that Stephen Cobb edit down the document as it was now much fuller than intended. Stephen Cobb said that he was concerned that we should be sending the interdisciplinary 'programme' out to the local Family Justice Councils sooner rather than later He hoped to have the final 'map' and a draft 'programme' available for the meeting on the 18th July. It was to be hoped that the programme would be sent out to local FJCs by the end of July.
Mike Shaw suggested that District Judges could approach Training Program Directors and that Stephen Cobb's mapping document could be provided to them. Katherine Gieve said that a directory of suggestions for contacts would be useful and which would also describe activities such as focus groups which would provide feedback.
Stephen Cobb informed the committee that he had put his report on 'Quality and Competence' on the back burner for while until there is sight of the Chief Medical Officer's report. He also said that he had been approached by Angela Muir from HMCS Family Justice Division about video conferencing; he also asked about the benefits of training video for experts in court. He asked for the committees views on this.
The Chair asked the medics on the committee if there was any merit in sourcing funding for training videos. He said that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office wanted training for their consular staff who dealt with child abduction cases and who might have to attend court. He asked the committee to think about a 'role play' video and all felt that this would be useful.
Mike Shaw talked about the Royal College of Psychiatrists Child & Adolescent training committee CAPSAC which is considering making compulsory for all child psychiatrists: attending the mini-pupillage scheme, conducting a case under supervision and undertaking a course much like the RSM course.