Meeting Summaries
Family Justice Council - Interdisciplinary Family Law Committee
22 November 2004
Matters arising
Expert's fees
Peggy Ray reported to the meeting that she had met with His Honour Judge Iain Hamilton and a sub group of the Committee to produce a document to accompany the Protocol for Experts, which covered fees. A draft was now ready to be distributed to members for their comments.
Lord Justice Thorpe asked how the document tied into the Protocol. Peggy Ray replied that it discussed the changes made to the way in which experts were paid.
Lord Justice Thorpe said that it was important for the Judiciary and Practitioners to also see the document. Angela Nield asked that it be sent to the Legal Services Commission for inclusion in their News Letter, as solicitors did not always know what to do.
Lord Justice Thorpe asked whether the document should be looked at by those who had produced the protocol. Peggy Ray replied that it was only a summary of the Protocol.
Angela Nield asked if it simply dealt with payment. Peggy Ray replied that it summed up how an expert should be approached, instructed and paid.
National Directory of Expert Witnesses
There was nothing to say regarding this agenda item.
Interface between the Mental Health Bill and the Children Act 1989
Laurence Oates informed the meeting that the Mental Capacity Bill was being introduced on 23 November 2004 and applies to 16-18 of either the Bill or Act, which ever is the most appropriate should be followed.
Working together for Family Justice: A unified agenda for training
Professor Thoburn said that she would like the document to go on the website of DCA, DfES, Social Care Excellence and CAFCASS so as to make it accessible to them and also to go on the website of various Royal Colleges.
Lord Justice Thorpe suggested the document should also go on the FJC website.
Grant Howell said that he would put it on the SFLA website. Professor Thoburn said that she was happy for it to go on any appropriate website.
Professor Mervyn Murch asked that he and Professor Douglas Hooper be given a steer as to what the Education and Training Sub-Committee were now to do. He felt that the FJC should take on the education and training issue.
Lord Justice Thorpe said that Angela Lake-Carroll and Elaine Laken, both FJC members, were attending the Dartington Fellows Conference and would be in a position to report back to the FJC as to the position regarding education and training.
Relationship between the Committee and the Family Justice Council
Lord Justice Thorpe said that it was plain that the Family Justice Council needed specialist sub committees to focus on particular areas. All sub committees of the FJC had been requested to report back in October 2005 to the Council as to what they considered their position to be in relation to the FJC.
Lord Justice Thorpe informed the meeting that an open invitation had been extended to all members of the Family Justice Council to join any of the sub-committees that interested them. The Chair was pleased to observe that there were several FJC members at the meeting.
Promoting and supporting local Family Justice Councils
Lord Justice Thorpe informed the Committee that the Family Justice Council had taken on a huge piece of work in trying to get consistency throughout the jurisdiction with regard to the dissemination of information. The creation of local Family Justice Councils was the way in which the Council proposed to achieve this. The local FJCs are to match the 42 UA areas and this in itself provides a challenge, as there are some UA areas that do not have a Care Centre and some that have 3.
Lord Justice Thorpe said that he had appealed to the Family Division Liaison Judges, Designated Family Judges and everyone on the Family Justice Council with local affiliations to work with the local FJCs, and the same appeal was being made to this Committee.
Lord Justice Thorpe discussed with the Committee an idea that had been put forward by Bruce Clark that the FJC employed a person or persons to take forward the vital work of setting up the local FJCs. This officer would go out and speak to each DFJ about their own area. It was felt that unless there was one dedicated person the initiative would lose its impetus. It is a huge challenge but also a huge opportunity.
Lord Justice Thorpe said that it had not been decided what was to happen to the Family Court Business Committees. In some areas these would remain, where they were working well, and become sub committees of the local FJC and in other areas they would cease to exist. This was a decision for each local FJC.
Dr Claire Sturge asked if it was possible to have a map that showed all the Care Centres and Katherine Gieve said that it would be useful to know which were the administration areas once the decision had been finalised.
Lord Justice Thorpe said that once it was clear where the 42 local FJCs were to be a map would be produced.
2005 Dartington Conference
Lord Justice Thorpe informed the Committee that the Family Justice Council had delegated the responsibility of the Conference to the Interdisciplinary Committee. The Conference was to take place from Friday 30 September 2005 through to Sunday 2 October 2005. The theme was to be kept general and then finalised in the spring and was to have an equal balance regarding Public and Private Law.
Lord Justice Thorpe asked for themes for the conference. Peggy Ray suggested "Durable Solutions" and this was agreed.
Lord Justice Thorpe said that there needed to be a planning group for the Conference. Lord Justice Thorpe, Katherine Gieve, Peggy Ray, Bruce Clark, Dr Gillian Schofield and Angela Nield agreed to form the working party.
Lord Justice Thorpe informed the Committee that the Family Justice Council was working on the idea of a 1 day conference dealing with expert issues and that Bruce Clark had put forward the proposal that we should "market" the FJC and possibly become accredited as a CPD points provider.
A discussion followed regarding the requirements needed and process to follow to become a CPD points provider.
Maintaining and expanding the pool of experts: Report back on a proposed initiative/pilot project between lawyers and estabished CAMHS experts
Dr Claire Sturge informed the Committee that she was part of a Garden Court working group that was looking at setting up a scheme that would encourage new experts and provide confidence to instructing parties to use new or first time experts. The idea was that an experienced expert would mentor a first time expert. This would provide benefits for both the new expert and the instructing party. The new expert would be given guidance and the instructing party confidence that the new expert was fully aware of what was expected from them. It was hoped that this initiative would help increase the number of experts available.
Lord Justice Thorpe said that he was concerned about duplication in this area and that the FJC was commencing a training initiative regarding experts which involved working through the Royal Colleges.
Dr Sturge said that her initiative was not training but support and assistance in getting the expert their first appointment.
Stephen Cobb QC said that under the FJC umbrella Dr Rosalyn Proops, Dr Danya Glaser and himself had been looking at the initiatives that were presently being undertaken regarding the issue of expert witnesses.
Dr Danya Glaser said that the problem of a lack of experts was more complex than just training. There was a reluctance to undertake this work even if the person had the professional knowledge and Dr Sturge's project was aiming to try and readdress this.
Lord Justice Thorpe said that there was so much going on in this sphere that there was a danger that unless there was a central pool the efforts to unify would not be as affective as they might be. He said that the FJC should be kept informed.
Dr Danya Glaser said that several of FJC members were on this group so the main Council would be kept informed.
Lynn Graham said that the Legal Services Commission was about to launch a consultation paper on experts. This was to be issued on Friday 26 November 2005 and was available on their website.
Dr Danya Glaser said that the FJC needed to take control of all that is going on and pull it together.
The FLBA has agreed to give new Guardians the opportunity to participate in a 1 week shadowing scheme and it was felt that this might also be useful for young doctors. The President had written to the FLBA re training of experts.
Lord Justice Thorpe said that it was important that the FJC worked through and with the appropriate Associations and Colleges.
Any other business
The Senior District Judge informed the Committee of a pilot disclosure scheme that is due to commence on 1 December 2004. The scheme is looking at ways of simplifying disclosure of papers from criminal proceedings when they are required in family proceedings. The pilot will last for 9 months and is being conducted in London, Cumbria, Lancashire, Manchester and Merseyside.
All information regarding this pilot is available on the DCA website.